Response to Scott Abel Accusations!
Well, I am out of the country right now but I received an email tonight (morning back home) notifying me of a FB post Scott Abel put up that is clearly talking about me. OBVIOUSLY, I am going to be respond since I’m sure not staying quiet on it, and once again, with some evidence.
Take note however of a big difference. When I made my accusations of plagiarism and theft, I did so with a mountain of evidence. Contrast this to the Scott Abel FB post – lots of accusations, with well, nothing but accusations.
McCarthyism!!!!!
Look it up.
This isn’t the first time Scott has done this. I am sure many would remember the post that Scott put up that said something along the lines of, “listen you gullible people, NO coach in this industry has a waiting list; none! If any coach tells you that they have a waiting list, you can be sure all they are doing is client screening.”
Accusation without evidence – and clearly wrong!
So here we go …
Seems an on-line Guru is “outing” someone else for blatantly plagiarizing his work. And I don’t know or care of the details to the accusation or the truth or falsity of it. But I will speak to the hypocrisy of it.
I’ll start with this. So Scott is commenting on an issue that he admittedly hasn’t even bothered to look at; just going on third-party information. If he did, he’d see more than an accusation, and instead lots and lots of proof for which the accusation stands on. That’s really responsible.
This is ironic, because the accuser here was a former client of mine whom I had to cut loose for plagiarizing MY work – over and over again.
Ok, this is what is called LYING. I have worked with Scott on more than one occasion in the past yes, and THAT relationship did not end due to me being cut loose whatsoever. You can read all those emails below and Scott’s own words acknowledging MY canceling. In fact, I canceled on November 10, 2010 in an email to Annie. (emailed saved).
To the issue of being cut loose for repeated plagiarizing, more below.
This was a few years back. When confronted on this he reacted with indignation and outrage – not knowing that very day – not one, not two, but three different people, none of whom knew each other – wrote me to ask “isn’t this your stuff Scott” – including programs, quotes, actual articles, YouTube Abel Body exercise Compounds etc.
Again, here is the difference between accusations with and without backing. Now I’ll address the “few years back”.
Annie Abel:
Erik,
I was just thinking about you….got to be honest with you…. I haven’t said anything to Scott because I know it would really upset him. When I received a personal e-mail from one person…. I ignored it…. but I’ve received a few e-mails recently from people expressing their feelings about the fact that you are blogging and posting things on your facebook and other places…. Scott’s ideas… blogs…etc… and not giving him credit… pretty much insinuating that all the information is your own.I’ve ignored it in the past… but it’s more frequent now. I’m direct reference to it…. But please stop making it sound like its your own. We copyright everything. I do hope that the workshop workbook is for your personal use only.
I absolutely hate writing this.
Thanks Erik…
Annie Abel
My response:
I am quite disturbed by this email. I am sincerely hoping that you have first-hand knowledge and observation of examples of this alleged plagiarism and credit theft that I am being accused of and that you’re not just going on the statements of whomever, without first verifying the accuracy of the accusations.
There should be confirmed evidence to support such strong allegations before they’re made.
The below references that Scott Abel’s material and write ups are copyrighted; the simple fact of mentioning that can only be in the context of my supposedly cutting and pasting Scott Abel’s writing (whatever is copyrighted) and posting it somewhere as my own. I would like to see the evidence of this. I already provided you an example of my NOT doing this – and that is the only blog post I have ever posted anywhere. (NOTE: that blog post is the one about Genetic Metabolic Resiliency posted on Lean Bodies Fitness).
//www.leanbodiesfitness.com/showthread.php?16310-The-Genetics-No-One-Talks-About-%28Part-1%29
Notice the “BY SCOTT ABEL” there?
You stated I am stealing Scott’s stuff and posting it to my blog. I provided a link to my blog and asked you to point me in the direction of the stolen material. Similarly, I would like to know what material has been reposted to Facebook, as well as the ‘other places’ you’re referencing, since I only post on my forum and Siouxcountry.
It would only seem reasonable to include the proof of the REPEATED OFFENSES with the accusations. I think that is only fair.
Thank you.
Was there anything provided? No, nothing.
Moving on …
To this I then emailed Scott myself on January 11/11. Scott responded saying:
Erik
I’ll try to comment below in red point to point but frankly I have no idea where this is coming from or why? I have no control over what my clients say on others boards. Trust me, many embarrass themselves with or without my name attached. Such is the internet I guess. I don;t follow other boards and don’t care to. So I really have no idea about any of this. If you have a problem with (name deleted) take it up with (name deleted) for crying out loud. I don’t practice mind control on people. Nor have I shared any client’s personal interactions with me, so not sure what that is about
But first this Jack guy calls me, now you write me. And really none of this has anything to do with me. Do you control your clients and tell them what they can and cannot say, and who they can and cannot comment on? Seems rather Nazi Germany to me.
Let me try to address whatever I can below then….
interspersed through my email is Scott’s responses mentioned above so I have bolded that for differentiation.
Scott,
It has come to my attention, and I not sure if you’re aware, but one of your clients has accused me to various industry people (instead of coming to me directly even) of stealing from you, cutting and pasting, directly, your material and essentially signing my name to it as if it were my own – without credit to you. I think someone wrote on a Blog somewhere and then one of your clients or former clients as well, contacted me some time ago. The issue, which wasn’t really one for me at the time, was something along the lines of you instead of posting a “link” to my Blog, instead copied and pasted it. I didn’t see much difference in that at the time, but over time more people said if someone truly wanted to acknowledge someone else’s Blog or intellectual property they post a link, not a copy and pasted version.
Furthermore, way before (name removed) was ever even a part of SC I got a notice from a guy over there, basically saying he was following all things going on there, and was shocked at how much this “Erik Ledin” guy was trying to be Scott Abel, implementing several “Abel-isms” he called them, quotes or whatever from various projects of mine, but without my name mentioned anyway. Who cares? I never brought it up to you because it seems to me, much ado about nothing.
When that Jack called me he mentioned something about “getting lawyers involved if needs be” Are you kidding. Because someone on the internet disagrees with you or misrepresents your stuff or whatever. A lawyer wouldn’t waste his time. These are non-issues mate.
I do not take accusations like this lightly, as you know from our prior exchange what prior exchange is that? and to be honest, given how long you’ve been a professional in this industry, I’d expect you to address these issues yourself if these are your feelings. Clearly there has been some kind of communication about me for one of your clients, no there indeed has not, other than answering a question at the time, “isn’t he a client of yours Scott?” Would you want me to lie about that? who I do not even speak to, to even know that I’m no longer a client of yours. I’m not sure why she privy to this information. frankly you are reaching here mate, to even assume I’ve been talking about you to anyone. I have tons of ex-clients as I am sure you do as well.
Your wife had also contacted me about this issue right before I canceled my training with you, referencing my plagiarism (I still have the email exchanges). I of course now know the source of that obviously, nope wasn’t (name removed) but that other guy, can’t honestly remember his name because I don’t keep such nonsense but in response I asked Annie to direct me to WHERE I had done this, since she said on my blog and on facebook that I had taken copyrighted material from your site and posted it as my own. If there were in fact instances of this, which I could not think of, I would promptly take them down. She had no examples/proof and was simply, and admittedly, basing it on the hearsay of one of your clients. Because she was simply asking you to the best of my knowledge.
This all sounds very unprofessional. To whom? You couldn’t contact me yourself upon cessation of your membership which I would consider a common courtesy. How come you guys only seem to notice other people’s assumed wrongs? I don’t get it. I also on many email exchanges treated you as a colleague and answered your questions regarding advice for your own clients, or processes etc, several times. Is that not goodwill above and beyond the client-coaching relationship. To that end, did you ever at anytime during that time acknowledge me as your coach over on SC? If not, why not? Where is the shame in that? Would it be “professional” to do so? Who knows?
Scott, I hope would that if this is in fact your issue with me, that you would address me directly, and not have clients running around accusing me of such behaviour. And if this isn’t the case, I’d hope you’d address this with (name removed) and make it clear on where YOU stand on this issue with me. I have no issues with you. Zero, zip, nada. Same with whomever that (name removed) guy is that called me on the phone. What is unprofessional here is people thinking I keep my clients on some kind of leash and tell them what they can and cannot say and where they can and cannot say it.
I’ve had former clients of yours contact me, with the usual whining and complaining, and have never said a bad word about you, or whatever they had to bitch about. I don’t keep such emails. I get them daily (not about you I mean, just in general)
If you want to discuss this on the phone, and tell me what it is you feel I’ve taken from you and signed my name to, I’d be more than happy to. I don’t keep track of such things mate. I asked you once when you sent me a text that had comments how come I didn’t see my name in the comments and I was asking in an information-sense, not an accusatorial sense. But you took it personally. However, I am not at all happy about this and am actually disappointed as I, even as a non-paying client, hold you in high regard.
I simply would like to clear the air on this issue.There is no air to clear as far as I’m concerned. I continue to always do my thing and hope it helps and supports people. I’m at a loss as to why I am not only dragged into this, but punished for it as well. Seems everyone but me is all emotional and on sides with this. Maybe because I am not on SC, maybe that is why I simply do not understand it all.
So the issue is i have no issue mate. I initially way back when, asked as a way to try to understand what I was told, so as to not jump to conclusions, and even though I was only asking, not really caring one way or another, it immediately turned personal, so I just dropped it. It certainly wasn’t worth it to me for it to turn personal. And neither is this frankly
Hope that helps, but frankly all of it just confuses me?????
Hope the family is doing well
God bless
Hmmm, it sounds like this story is a bit different than Scott is posting based on evidence. Why is he lying? I really have no good answer.
Continuing on with the next email, I had said:
Fair enough. And I answered asking to be pointed in the direction of the copied material, on either my blog or FB so that I could promptly remove them if they were deemed ‘stolen’. I was never pointed to any, and yet … the accusations persist. But, I understand, not your problem.
I was very upset at being accused of stealing, plagiarizing and reposting copyrighted Scott Abel material as it if were my own with no credit … with not so much as an ounce of proof. When I knew I’d done no such thing.
Scott:
Erik
It always bothers me when professional courtesy and decorum spirals into personal attacks and innuendo etc. Annie asked you about the scenario because it was presented to her, more than once, as I said, not just by (name removed). So we were asking; a far cry from accusing. Annie and I are simply not very internet savvy. So when people contact and say certain things are not “kosher” we sometimes don’t understand how or why, so we investigate by asking. More of a perplexion than anything else.
My response to this part:
Interestingly enough, Annie told me that you were not aware of this … and she didn’t want you aware of it because it would make you upset.
I was not asked if this was the case. I was told. As you can see here, there is no question being asked. It is a statement and subsequent request to please stop, on the assumption of guilt. To which it was ME who asked – where? I simply asked for where since the ‘where’ was pretty specific here – my blog and on FB.
Later you say you’ll always call a spade a spade – well, this isn’t a question. It’s assumed guilt.
And did I ever get anything? Nope. I specifically ask to be pointed to where this is occurring … and not once was I. Not even one time after ASKING for it. Accusations before investigating?
But trying to shame and humiliate this person publicly never crossed my mind.
Crafty, but seems dishonest since it’s not hard to figure out who the post is about; it does not require a name. “I don’t want to shame and humiliate a person because I am so far above that” … yet hey everyone, we all know who I’m talking about and I’ll let the comments show it.
And yet on his forum, pretty much implores OTHERS to do the ‘calling out’ for him.
And I’M the hypocrite? Is this the Matrix? I’m the one with the ego? I’m not the one who differentiates between Big C coaches (only Scott) and little C coaches – everyone else in the industry steals from Scott since he invented not only the barbell, but the egg white too. Scott was also the first to believe that SS cardio was not good – his Aerobic Myth article. No, he was not. So everyone who winds up with ANY belief system similar to Scott’s has stolen from him? Come on. Does he credit Alwyn Cosgrove or JC Santana for his “Quad Blast”, which is the same as their quad finisher with a different label?
But it speaks to the colossal egos involved in this industry when someone does the same crime to him and the person reacts with moral outrage. When you are guilty of blatant plagiarism yourself, and not just once – then people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones – let alone boulders.
See all of the above.
Yes, this person accusing a former client of plagiarizing HIS work – was in fact a former client of mine who plagiarized MY work, on more than one occasion.
See above again.
I don’t think so!
Now I’ll go back and post something about coaches having coaches, learning, expanding philosophies, etc., etc. Read the second half of this post:
Anyone with an ounce of objectivity who reads this can only conclude Scott is being sensationalistic and in some cases full-out lying.